I've always thought that the center of the Tim Holtz rose and those like it on the internet was a little "fussy" to do. It's easier with grungepaper than cardstock but still hard to get exactly right. The answer was staring me right in the face. You need the Sizzix Flower Layers #5 die (that has six petals) and the Sizzix 3 D die to do the improved rose. You make the first three layers just like Tim's. Then for the center you make--ta da!--the small 3D rose. The picture on the left shows the old roses on the left and the new roses on the right. Then the other pic is a close up of the roses. I think there's a world of difference and it was so easy but you do need both dies. Once this dawned on me I was cranking out roses yesterday like a madwoman! One tip I have if you are going to try this is to let the 3D rose "relax" a little, in otherwords unwind some, before you glue it in the center. Don't forget to click on the pictures to see them larger. Ok, that's my big discovery of the month!